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[personal profile] iad58
A very confused issue is making the news this morning. The minister of state administration of Bulgaria is going to Brussels, together with a team of experts (?), there to argue in favour of the € being called евро in Bulgarian. Apparently the European Central Bank, or maybe some other EU body, wants it to be written еуро, for uniformity's sake. (They don't seem to care how it's pronounced, since in that there's no uniformity even in the relatively narrow area of Western Europe where the € was invented.)

Why should such a thing as a bank have a say in what's called what in any language, one wonders? And why should anyone from outside presume to tell the Bulgarian language what to call anything?

Apparently several EU countries (or, should we say, their official languages) have already been harassed into compliance. The EU wants all names of the € to be spelt euro, and it also wants them not to inflect (1 euro, 10 euro), so that the design of the € currency can be kept simple.

Even so, if the word is written in Bulgarian on the notes, it's going to look different from the two that are already there, viz., EURO and ΕΥΡΩ. What difference does it make whether the third one is ЕУРО or ЕВРО?

Not to mention that this urge towards uniformity and simplicity has placed several European countries in the idiotic situation of having a national currency which doesn't really have a name in the national language.

They probably don't know in Brussels that Soviet notes bore their face value in 15 languages, in four different scripts, and with full respect for each language's grammar. And the 15 names of the currency, far from being the same, weren't even all related to one another. This is what I call unity in diversity.

Learn, you fools.

Do not be complacent

Date: 8 Nov 2006 10:24 (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
See http://www.evertype.com/standards/euro for the sad and enfuriating story of the disaster in language planning that has affected the English and Irish languages regarding the name of the euro.

And learn from it. And militate against linguistic abuse in Bulgarian.

The Maltese successfully insisted on ewro, I believe.

Michael Everson

Date: 8 Nov 2006 11:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mitcher.livejournal.com
Простите, что влезаю, но зацепило "together by".

Date: 8 Nov 2006 12:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
О! Спасибо большое, исправляем.

Date: 8 Nov 2006 12:22 (UTC)

Re: Do not be complacent

Date: 8 Nov 2006 12:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
Alas, linguistic abuse has been pretty much the norm here for seventeen years. I seem to be the only one to insist on saying евра when talking of more than one. For everyone else, as it seems, евро is a peculiar mass noun (доларите this, еврото that) that does, however, cooccur with numerals (??десет евро). Which isn't much of a problem as long as the € is a strange thing from strange lands, but as I gather that won't always be so, and then it will be odd that the national currency's name isn't a full-fledged count noun of the national language.

Incidentally, an online newspaper lists Malta as one of the countries that have been forced to call the € euro in its national language. Misinformation?

Date: 8 Nov 2006 12:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
Вообще-то там сперва стояло «accompanied by», потом я решил заменить оборот, но замена произвелась почему-то не до конца. Такое со мной бывает чаще, чем можно предположить; все думают (и правильно делают), что ошибаться я не способен, поэтому ляпы из моих рук обычно принимают за архаизмы, шотландизмы, каламбуры и тому подобное.

Date: 8 Nov 2006 13:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mitcher.livejournal.com
А я, кстати, именно про accompanied by и подумал. Хотя про пиитет по отношению к вам вы правы. Как и вообще :)

Date: 8 Nov 2006 13:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wildernesscat.livejournal.com
Looks like Bulgaria and the EU are in it just for the sake of arm wrestling.

Date: 8 Nov 2006 14:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
I don't think Bulgaria is: renaming the € еуро really isn't acceptable (whether the team of experts will make an expert case is a different question). As for the ECB and the various EU offices, it may be that they honestly don't understand how absurd they're being. They say they wished the currency's name to look the same in all of the union's languages, and there's nothing wrong with such a desire; but who's to blame that they wanted a thing that can't be?

Date: 8 Nov 2006 21:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chhwe.livejournal.com
sometimes in 16 languages (incl. Finnish) affaikk

Date: 8 Nov 2006 22:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
That makes sense, given that there were 16 republics in the Union at one time. But the 15-language notes are the ones I've seen with my own eyes! (And I think I still have one somewhere, only I don't remember where.)

Re: Do not be complacent

Date: 10 Nov 2006 10:15 (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Contact the Ministry of Education and the Ministry for Finance. Please make your case, or it will be painful otherwise.

Yes, it's misinformation about Maltese. See http://www.kunsilltalmalti.gov.mt/filebank/documents/reportonthenamesoftheeuropeancurrency.pdf

Michael Everson

Date: 10 Nov 2006 10:17 (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_issues_concerning_the_euro and note in particular the sad situation of English and Irish.

Michael Everson

Re: Do not be complacent

Date: 10 Nov 2006 10:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evertype.livejournal.com
(Actually the Maltese wrote to me last year and thanked me for my "The plural of euro is euros" page, as it helped them to be able to insist on ewro.

Re: Do not be complacent

Date: 11 Nov 2006 07:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
That Maltese document is a twelvemonth old; are you sure that nothing has happened in the meantime?

I wrote to the Institute for Bulgarian Language (where at least some of the experts on the team presumably work) and the Ministry of State Administration. My letters won't be opened until Monday, though, and I don't know how long the delegation is planning to stay in Brussels.

Date: 28 Apr 2008 00:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ettevatus.livejournal.com
Ранее СССР-а, кстати, "нацменское" многоязычие на купюрах ввела другая империя - Австро-Венгрия. В онлайне можно найти примеры.

А на первых сов.купюрах были надписи на основных языках мира - английском, немецком, арабском... языки союзных республик на кушпюрах более поздних - это уже была синица в руках

Date: 28 Apr 2008 06:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
Именно нацменское? Я читал, что на австро-венгерских купюрах был текст на немецком и на венгерском (как бы на языках союзных стран), а на «нацменском» чешском, к примеру, не было.

Ну да. Выходит, ни Австро-Венгрия, ни СССР не предполагали и не требовали невозможного — чтобы название чего-то (скажем, их валюты) выглядело одинаково на разных языках, а принимали как данность то, что языки разные и у каждого и буквы могут быть свои, и звуки, и грамматика, и словарь. Один ЕС пытается все уравнить.

Date: 30 Apr 2008 16:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ettevatus.livejournal.com
1. На тех купюрах, что я видел, были и по-чешски, и на каком-то подобии украинского. Сейчас искать недосуг, но в онлайне должно быть.

2. Нас всех частенько постигает один и тот же "оптиццкий омман здрения": мы приписываем целым странам и народам деяния одного или нескольких зауряд-госчиновников, в лучшем случае временщиков... которые сильны, возможно, в искусстве правильно лизнуть начальственный зад, но никак не в лингвистике и истории...

Date: 30 Apr 2008 16:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iad.livejournal.com
Ага, Галиция ведь была частью Австро-Венгрии. Но когда в романе Сватоплука Чеха пражанин пан Броучек попадает из XIX в XV век, он рассуждает, что дела его плохи, потому что золота и серебра у него нет, только купюры, а гуситы, наверное, не понимают ни по-немецки, ни по-венгерски. К сему в издании, которое я читал в отрочестве, прилагается прим. перев.: в Австро-Венгрии надписи на деньгах были только на этих двух языках.

Речь о том, что зауряд-госчиновник способен наломать крупных дров, а страна и народ, от имени которых он действует, причастны к его делам в силу того, что не хотят или не могут его остановить.

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